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Digital Archive International History Declassified

June 17, 1964

RECORD OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN PREMIER ZHOU AND SECOND VICE PRESIDENT RASHIDI KAWAWA

This document was made possible with support from the Henry Luce Foundation

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    Zhou Enlai and Kawawa discuss the diplomatic competition between Taiwan and the PRC, political conditions in Tanzania and Zanzibar, and plans for the Second Asian-African Conference.
    "Record of Conversation between Premier Zhou and Second Vice President Rashidi Kawawa," June 17, 1964, History and Public Policy Program Digital Archive, PRC FMA 108-01318-07. Translated by David Cowhig. https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/188126
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Confidential Document 500

Ministry of Foreign Affairs document

Record of Conversation: Premier Zhou and Second Vice President Rashidi Kawawa

(On the morning of June 17, 1964, on the way from the hotel to the airport)

(not reviewed by the Prime Minister)

-- Concerning the "Two Chinas", the Tanzanian Union, the Second Asian-African Conference, and the Premier’s visit to East Africa -

On the morning of June 17th, on the way to the airport by the hotel, the Premier and Kawawa talked about the following issues:

(1) On the "Two Chinas" issue. The Premier said that Ambassador He Ying recently visited Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland. He had good talks in Northern Rhodesia. Kaunda said that he would establish diplomatic relations with China after independence in October, and he hoped that the Premier would visit North Africa at the time of his visit to East Africa. The situation in Nyasaland is not very good. They insisted that Chiang Kai-shek clique be invited to join us in their independence celebration. The Prime Minister emphasized that if Nyasaland engages in two Chinas, we cannot establish diplomatic relations. Of course, the people of Nyasaland are still friendly.

The British approach is different from that of the United States. The United Kingdom does not do this, so the practice of Nyasaland reflects the U.S. example. Britain refused to allow the Chiang Kai-shek clique to set up a consulate in London, which is good, but in the United Nations both sides supported it. France’s attitude is different. It clearly stated in the United Nations that only we can represent China. Now the United States is engaged in the "Two Chinas" conspiracy. It mostly works behind the scenes and lets others take the lead in speaking out. There are three main methods: one is "Two Chinas"; the other is "internationalization of the Taiwan issue" advocated by the United Kingdom; the third is "one China, one Taiwan." Chiang Kai-shek, also opposes these three plots, because he agreed to have no political capital. If we were to agree, then we would could come to an agreement at the Sino-American talks but that would sell out our sovereignty. The Prime Minister stated that many Asian and African friends still do not understand this issue very well, so if there is an opportunity to talk about it at the Second Asian-African Conference, we will be prepared to discuss it.

(2) The issue of Tanzania unification and African unity. The Prime Minister said that the delegation’s visit was very successful and imperialism must be unhappy about it. They will make provocations. In order to counter their provocations, we will need to deal with it with a united and determined attitude. For the Tanzanian Union, our consistent attitude is to support the aspirations of African people to achieve unity and to achieve it in the way that they choose. Imperialism also supports the Tanzanian Union, but they have ulterior motives. Zanzibar’s land reforms, the fleeing of foreigners who did not accept the land reforms, and their friendship with the socialist countries made the imperialists very angry with Zanzibar. Now President Nyerere is also friendly with the socialist countries and is sending a vice president to visit China. He also forced out the British army. Imperialism must be very annoyed about these things. Under these circumstances, Tanzania needs to be more united, and should do what is conducive to unity and not do what is not conducive to unity. The most important thing for President Julius Nyerere and the first Vice President Rashidi Karume to work together well. Not only must there be Tanzanian solidarity, so too there must be African solidarity and Asia-African solidarity.

The Premier said that the specific conditions of each country are different and the method of dealing with problems cannot be the same. Zanzibar had land reform because of the feudal land tenure system there. There was no feudal land ownership in Tanganyika and so there is no need for land reform there. There are two kinds of land possession in Tanganyika: one is the black man’s plantation and the other is the white man’s plantation. For white plantations, a step-by-step method can be adopted. Therefore, different specific situations naturally produce different specific practices. The important thing is to do a good job uniting and opposing imperialism.

At this time, the Premier reminded them to pay attention to their own security and be wary of imperialist subversion, and imperialists plots to commit murder and other crimes. The Premier said that you are all outstanding leaders who have grown up with the independence movement and are valuable treasures deserving of great respect. The Premier said that the socialist countries have begun lack experience in this and haven’t been paying enough attention to the plotting of the imperialists.

Lenin was devastated by several assassination attempts, could not work for a long time and died early because of them. The Prime Minister repeatedly stressed that in order for use to work together to deal with imperialism, we need to do a good job at achieving internal unity. All issues are negotiable and should be handled on a highly democratic basis. For us to achieve solidarity, we must be united internally. In order to do a good job of solidarity, we must first of all do a good job in achieving internal national unity in our own countries. Only by doing a good job in our own country can we influence other countries. The Premier took East Africa as an example to show that the alliance of East Africa can only be based on what each of them has achieved internally. They must first put their own domestic affairs in order and then it will be easier for them to achieve unity with other countries.

(3) Regarding the Second Asian-African Conference, the Premier said that the Second Asian-African Conference will be held next year and needs to be well prepared. The First Asian-African Conference formulated ten principles. The second meeting will make these ten principles more concrete, help each other economically, and support the national independence struggles of the people of the countries that have not yet achieved independence. Western countries are unreliable and they always want to control our Asian and African countries. At the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, the recommendations made by the seventy-five Asian and African countries were not approved. Now the Asian and African countries are opening economic preparatory meetings. Our two countries need to cooperate very well at the Second Asian-African conference at the opening of the conference.

The Premier also mentioned that it would be possible to visit the East African countries after mid-December this year and that once the exact time is decided we will let you know. Kawawa said that it is better to visit Tanganyika in January.

(As remembered by Sui Chaozhu and drafted by Kong Fannong)