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September 13, 1958

A Brief Record of Conversation between N.S. Khrushchev and Prof. K. Yasui

This document was made possible with support from Blavatnik Family Foundation

A BRIEF RECORD OF A CONVERSATION BETWEEN

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV AND Prof. K. YASUI

 

13 September 1958

 

The conversation began at 1140

After an exchange of greetings

 

K. YASUI. I am very thankful that you received me in spite of the fact that you are very busy.

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. Not at all, I am not completely occupied right now, I am resting.

K. YASUI. The Japanese people are very grateful to you for the warm messages directed to our people. A powerful movement has been launched in Japan right now to prohibit atomic and hydrogen weapons. On 31 March of this year the Soviet Union unilaterally ceased the testing of nuclear weapons and called upon the US and Britain to follow its example; however, unfortunately, these two countries are continuing such tests right now. The Japanese people protest the continuation of the testing of atomic and hydrogen weapons by these two countries and fervently desire the conclusion of an agreement about a cessation of such tests by all countries. Consequently, could you not present your opinion about the prospects for the fight for the cessation of the testing of atomic and hydrogen weapons. 

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. I would like to express several views on this question and explain some steps which we will take before long.

Tomorrow or the day after there will be an announcement in the press [handwritten above: A report is being given in our press about our testing] of some types of nuclear weapons. We have already said previously that in the event the American and British governments do not follow our example and continue testing of atomic and hydrogen weapons we will consider ourselves free from our commitment. Now we will make an appropriate statement and want these steps of ours to be correctly understood by everyone. We cannot allow the US and Britain to put us in a disadvantageous position by continuing the testing of atomic and hydrogen weapons and changing that correlation of forces which has developed in our favor. We cannot fail to conduct such tests at a time when the US and Britain are continuing to conduct them and refusing to conclude an agreement about their cessation. But right now we stand for the complete cessation of the testing of atomic and hydrogen weapons by all countries and the conclusion of a corresponding agreement.

K. YASUI. Does this mean that in the next few days you will begin the testing of atomic and nuclear weapons?

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. No, The tests will begin at the beginning of October, but we are announcing this right now inasmuch as the nuclear weapons tests will be conducted in our northern seas and all ships need to be withdrawn from there to avoid unfortunate incidents.

In connection with the conduct of these tests the people of the entire world, and firstly the peoples of the US, West Germany, and Japan, are presented with new opportunities to use our beginning of the testing of nuclear weapons to force the governments of the US and Britain to seek the conclusion of an agreement about the immediate cessation of the testing of atomic and hydrogen weapons by all countries. It will be expedient to submit this question to the United Nations.

K. YASUI. We well understand the position of the Soviet government on this question. It was pointed out in the statement of Minister of Foreign Affairs A. Gromyko at a USSR Supreme Soviet session in March of this year that the Soviet Union will be released from its commitment not to conduct testing of atomic and hydrogen weapons if the governments of the US and Britain do not respond to the initiative of the Soviet Union. We now fervently desire a general prohibition of atomic and hydrogen weapons and a cessation of their testing by all countries and a further relaxation of international tension. Consequently I would like to find out your opinion about the US military preparations in the region of the island of Taiwan, for the Soviet Union is tied to the People’s Republic of China by a treaty of friendship and alliance.

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. We have already expressed our opinion about the situation in the region of the island of Taiwan in a message to US President Eisenhower in which we gave the US government a very serious warning about the serious consequences of such provocative acts. It ought to be noted at the same time that with the existence of missile weapons right now the time of the navy has passed. Did you read this message?

K. YASUNI. Yes, I am familiar with this message.

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV Today I read Eisenhower’s speech on the radio. This speech, although it also contained a series of attacks against us and the People’s Republic of China, essentially contained a retreat from previous positions inasmuch as the US agreed to seek negotiations and even hand this question to the UN; the US government clearly is beating a retreat, for this is a de facto recognition of the People’s Republic of China, true, only in words. It speaks further of handing the question over to the United Nations for a decision, but since China is not represented in the United Nations it will be necessary for it to send its representative there to discuss this question. However, some more time will be required until full recognition of the PRC for a 180-degree turn is necessary. But there is no doubt that on this question the US government has already been forced right now to retreat from its previous position.

K. YASUNI. World public opinion and the Japanese people highly appreciate the Soviet Union’s contribution to the cessation of military activities in Egypt, in the resolution of the question of Lebanon and Jordan, and in the region of Taiwan. The warnings of the Soviet government have played a very important role in averting war.

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. We have already forced the aggressive circles of the US, Britain, and a number of other countries to abandon war as a means of settling disputes four times. The first time, when combat operations in Egypt had already begun, our warning to the aggressors led to peace in this region. The second time we averted aggression against Syria, publishing all the war plans of Turkey and a number of other countries against Syria, we reported the deployment of the troops of the aggressors and their plans. The third time we frustrated an intervention planned by the US against Iraq in which a revolution had occurred. The neighboring countries of Iraq – Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan – were to have taken part in this intervention. When this was done pay attention – the US was using Turkey in its provocations. We not only averted a war, but also exposed the policy of the US in the eyes of world public opinion. We have also done the same thing right now in connection with the US military provocations in the region of Taiwan. As I have already said, the US has backtracked here and has even been forced to a de facto recognition of the People’s Republic of China.

K. YASUNI. The United States of American did not recognize the Soviet Union for a very long time. The same thing is being repeated with recognition of the People’s Republic of China.

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. Yes, absolutely right. But much time will be needed until complete recognition of the PRC, and they will need to sharply turn around their previous policy, but they will be inevitably forced to change it.

K. YASUNI. I want to touch on a question of Japanese-Soviet relations. Diplomatic relations between the USSR and Japan were restored as a result of the efforts of the Soviet government and a movement of the Japanese people, but a complete normalization of relations cannot be achieved without the conclusion of a peace treaty between the two countries. However, a Japan dependent on the US will not be able to quickly conclude this peace treaty.

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. Yes, Japan does not need excessive is not in a hurry in the question of the conclusion of a peace treaty. Japan depends on the US very strongly and it will require a certain time for the conclusion of such a treaty; it is necessary to expand economic, cultural, and other ties between the two countries, and strengthen the friendship between the two peoples.

K. YASUNI. American military bases are located and American troops are quartered on the territory of Japan. The Japanese people are demonstrating concern in connection with the fact that Japan might be used by the US in a war against the Soviet Inion, China, and other countries.  We are fighting for the withdrawal of American troops and the elimination of the American military bases.

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. There are no questions between the Soviet Union, China, and Korea on the one hand, and Japan, on the other, which could not be solved. All questions can be solved on the basis of friendship, and an improvement of economic and cultural ties between the two countries. Japan has little territory with an enormous population. The Soviet Union and China have enormous territory, large populations, and inexhaustible natural resources. Friendship and economic cooperation between our countries will eliminate a number of the difficulties which have arisen in Japan, including the question of the constant growth of the country’s population.

K. YASUNI. Cultural ties between the two countries have considerably improved recently.

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. Yes, this is so.

K. YASUNI. The visits of the Leningrad Symphony Orchestra and also of a number of important musicians and singers have found a great response in Japan. It would be desirable for such ties between the two countries to continue to improve.

I would like to ask you about one more question which interests me very much. The 20th Party Congress which, it seems to me, provided the beginning of a new stage in the development of the CPSU, had great importance in the 40-year history of the CPSU; already in Moscow I found out that the 21st Party Congress is being convened at the start of the next year. What is the importance of this Congress?

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. According to the Party Charter after the latest 20th Party Congress was held in 1956 the next Congress should have been four years later, that is, in 1960. However, we had prepared target figures for a new seven-year plan. This has enormous importance for our entire country, and we have decided to consult about this question at the Congress. Therefore in January 1959 we will gather the 21st Extraordinary CPSU Congress which is to play a very important role in the development of Communism in our country. By the way, the US declares everywhere that they are saving the world from Communism. But Communism is an ideology, each country has the right to choose that form of government which the people of this country like. We are not planning to establish our system in other countries by armed force. The upcoming seven-year plan has enormous importance for our country, but it also has great international importance. After seven years in our total production figures we will catch up to or approach the US in individual figures not yet per capita, and in the future we will reach the level of production of the US in all the numbers and surpass it. With this we will exert our influence on the minds of peoples in all countries. One might not accept Marxism-Leninism, but when we have many houses, much bread, butter, cotton, and other various goods it will be impossible for everyone not to recognize this. The future seven-year plan will play a very important role in the creation of the foundations of Communism in our country.

K. YASUNI. In several days I will return to Japan. Do you wish to pass anything to the Japanese people through me?

N. S. KHRUSHCHEV. We are doing everything to make relations between the two countries good and friendly. We deeply respect the people of Japan, who are  industrious and well-organized in work, and their art and culture. We desire an improvement of economic and cultural relations between the two countries and friendship between the two peoples. We have no unresolved questions and we should live in peace, friendship, and cooperation.

(During the conversation K. Yasuni introduced his wife and daughter [Yuko] and asked N. S. Khrushchev to permit his daughter to study in the Philosophy Department of Moscow [State] University, to which N. S. Khrushchev agreed [entered by hand: said that this question would be decided favorably].

The conversation ended at 1300.

 

The conversation was recorded by A. Romanov

Yasui and Khrushchev talk about the nuclear test ban, the situation in Taiwan, the recognition of the People's Republic of China around the world, and the next 11th Communist Party Congress. 


Document Information

Source

RGANI, f. 52, op. 1, d. 596, ll. 93-100. Contributed by Sergey Radchenko and translated by Gary Goldberg.

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Original Uploaded Date

2020-01-29

Type

Memorandum of Conversation

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Record ID

209749

Donors

Blavatnik Family Foundation, Carnegie Corporation of New York (CCNY) and Chun & Jane Chiu Family Foundation