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July 5, 1990

Minutes of the Final Meeting with the CIA on 2 July 1990

This document was made possible with support from Blavatnik Family Foundation

Warsaw: July 5, 1990.



Duplicate no.  1



of the final meeting with the CIA on 2 July 1990.


The meeting was attended by the head of the UOP, Minister Krzysztof Kozłowski and all the members of both delegations.


The talks were opened by Minister K. Kozłowski[:]


He welcomed everyone stressing that he believed that the time spent by the delegations in the talks was well-used. He then asked the US side to give us offer thoughts, insights and comments on the talks.


The head of the delegation, Mr. Paul Redmond, spoke[:]


He warmly thanked for the hospitality; for allowing time to conduct talks with the senior staff of the Polish intelligence service. He assessed the talks as very fruitful and a good start for further cooperation.


The talks were conducted in two groups: on group that talked on combating terrorism and the other discussed political and intelligence issues.


Mr. Redmond asked the American co-head Mr Frederick Turco to summarize the discussions in the anti-terrorism group.


He said:


The discussion with the Polish colleagues was very detailed and concerned the potential threat of terrorism. The American side tried to share their knowledge and experience on this topic.


Both sides agreed to support the disclosure of persons and to provide information on those persons aim to undermine the joint Polish-American Interests. The US side will provide current data on the most dangerous people. They are also ready to assist us in developing analytical work.


The American side is ready to provide us with all the required training assistance. It has been proposed that we use their experience in establishing our counter-terrorism center (CTC). To this end, they are ready to accept our small group, which would receive training at their center. The Polish group's stay in the USA could also be used for the necessary working discussions on the work of the Center and become familiar with the structures of other institutions that are in contact with the CTC. Training in the US would allow for virtually similar seminars domestically.


The American side also offered assistance in providing training for those directly involved in aircraft security. It would take place in Warsaw. It was also emphasized that close cooperation between our services would allow terrorism to be effectively controlled. The intelligence services need to co-operate in this field. The CIA service is ready to provide us with all the topics in this area.


In reply, director Zych summarized the topics addressed by the Polish side.


During the talks, the political aspects of terrorism (states and supporting organizations that sponsor terrorism) were discussed, focusing on Islamic terrorism in the Middle East.


The characteristics of individual terrorist groups have been made, mainly from the Middle east, focusing among others on their organization, internal communication, tactics, financial support, distinctive features of individual groups.


The structures set up to combat terrorism within the framework of the intelligence services and other state institutions, their scope, their interaction, coordination of activities in the prevention of terrorism and in the cases of acts of terrorism. Possible risks to facilities, means of transport, foreign missions or personnel have been identified; types of terrorist acts such as murder, kidnapping, use of explosives. The issue of equipment and specialist equipment used in the safeguarding and combating of terrorist acts has been raised. From our American partners we have obtained:


- valuable information material, including specific studies;


- practical, concrete guidance and suggestions on the organization of the anti-terrorism unit that we intend to establish within the framework of the UOP, including staff selection, structure, range of competence, with particular regard to the functioning of the crisis staff;


- providing assistance for staff training (operation of the crisis staff, security officers in airplanes;


- ability to provide up-to-date information on terrorist threats.


Channels have been set for current and periodic contacts.


Director Zych thanked for materials received, information and the readiness to provide assistance. He expressed the Polish side’s satisfaction in the course of the talks; their open, constructive and pragmatic character. They were characterized by mutual understanding and the desire to continue and develop cooperation in the information and operational aspects.


Mr F. Turco, in response to a request from the Polish side and following his earlier statement, stated that the possibility of adopting the Polish group in mid-September of this year is fully realistic.


Minister K. Kozlowski stated that such training should be considered as a first step in order to provide further opportunities to learn from the American experience.


Mr F. Turco stressed that their experts are also prepared to come to Poland and ask for priorities in order to adapt to our needs. He believes that training on board airplanes is essential and should be started immediately, as the risk is obvious.


Minister Kozłowski replied that he understood the importance of the problem and, in consultation with other institutions, among them the LOT [Polish Airlines], counter-terrorism units and police will try to find appropriate dates.


Mr. F. Turco added that the problem of coordination between all the institutions involved in the field of anti-terrorism measures is of particular importance. It is up to him to react quickly to these acts of terror.


Minister K, Kozłowski stressed that he was aware of the assistance of American experts and that the Polish side would try to communicate possible dates of their arrival.


Mr. F. Turco pointed out that it leaves up to the Polish side the issue of secrecy and the nature in which their training group would come to Poland. This may include, for example, different commercial companies.


Minister K. Kozłowski said that the secret of the CIA group's stay would be rather easy given that in Poland no-one would associate flight safety and security with the operations of the CIA.


Mr. Paul Redmond then presented the issues discussed in the political and operational group. Drawing up the list of topics, he did not focus on their priority and did not exclude the possibility of supplementing the list if necessary.


First, the U.S. delegation will try to provide their Director from the Information Directorate with information about our request to provide data on the current assessment of the situation in Poland. He does not know what they can do, but certainly they will be able to offer us something useful. Second, they will prepare materials on the methods of officer training;


Third, they will help train instructors and are ready to bring their own lecturers;


Fourth, they will help train the staff needed for information and analysis work.


Fifth, they will inform our service of the activities of the KGB and the GRU, their organization and methods of operation.


The American side can also provide information on employees of these services working in Poland on our request. Sixth, they will pass on their experience of developing and distributing information to the relevant government bodies.


Seventh, they took note of the position of the Polish side on the FBIS and they will present it in the USA.


Eighth, the possibility of assistance from the Polish side to their services in collecting information from areas that to the CIA finds difficult to access - Syria, Libya, Iraq.


As a final comment, Mr P. Redmond stressed that he fully understood the sensitivity of our situation arising from Poland's geopolitical position, from contacts in the near and distant past. Therefore, they are dealing with our intelligence service and treat information about them as to secret.


Minister K. Kozlowski answered and stressed that the group of issues presented was good and fully accepted the results of the discussions. He asked the US partners to send us the selection and training data as soon as possible - even in July, as we need to launch the first training course. He added that we would be grateful for the lecturers who could come to Poland for 7-10 days in October of this year with lectures for our students. The subjects of interest to us will be determined at a later date.


Mr. Redmond asked to be informed in advance about the lecturers and topics.


Minister K. Kozłowski added to his statement that he sees the training of the staff of the Polish intelligence service in a broader international context. Lectures will be conducted in different periods, which will also by the Russians. He added that he was convinced that such conduct of the Polish side was understandable to the American partners.


The minister said that we would be very grateful for exchange of information on economic matters and the work of other intelligence services. We treat the US as a friendly country, but we do not break relations with other partners, and we will have an independent policy.


The minister then thanked the US intelligence service for help and cooperation. He hoped that this was not our last meeting.


Mr. Paul Redmond, in reply to Minister K. Kozłowski, thanked for excellent hospitality, the dedication of Polish intelligence officers and their participation in the talks. He pointed out that he was counting on the possibility of returning the hospitality in Washington. He thanked for gifts, which would remind them of their excellent stay in Poland.


Krzysztof Kozłowski, Paul Redmond, and others from the Polish and American intelligence services discuss bilateral cooperation, particularly in the area of counterterrorism.

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Document Information


Polish the Institute of National Remembrance (IPN), bu 3558/89/2. Contributed by Tomasz Kozłowski and translated by Jerzy Giebułtowski.


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