Reception of the United Arab Republic’s Parliamentary Delegation by N.S. Khrushchev

Reception of the United Arab Republic’s Parliamentary Delegation by N.S. Khrushchev

May 3, 1961

N.S. Khrushchev greets the delegation.

Anwar Sadat: Mister Chairman, please allow me to convey President Gamal Abdel Nasser’s regards and warm wishes to you, as well as regards and best wishes to you from my friend, Field Marshal Amer. 

On behalf of the members of the delegation and in my personal capacity, it is an honor to congratulate you with the extraordinary successes achieved by your country in all areas, and especially in the area of space exploration. Your victory is our victory. Your strength is our strength. 

As you know, in the second half of the 20^th century we, the smaller nations, started having hopes for the future. I mean that the Soviet Union declared a policy of peaceful coexistence, that in international relations it put its weight towards helping smaller nations fight for their independence. We, the smaller nations, experienced your personal important role in this cause (of course, we don’t deny that the Soviet people also had a role in it). All nations which are currently under imperialistic oppression know and value your role in their destinies. We are a small nation, but a nation which is decisive, courageous, and which knows how to fight and how to be grateful. 

We are using this opportunity to express our gratitude to the Soviet people and you personally for the great help and support that you have provided to us and will continue to provide in the future. I solemnly declare in front of everyone that you are helping us honestly, without any conditions or obligations attached. You helped us in 1956 during the tripartite aggression, you helped us in 1957 when there was a threat to Syria, you are helping us in the construction of the Aswan Dam, and you especially helped us by eradicating the monopoly on sales and purchases of weapons. 

We came here to strengthen our friendship even further. We affirm that we are moving forward with our mission – we are fighting for the unity of the Arabs, for peace and peaceful coexistence. We are implementing this policy in cooperation with other friendly nations. 

The Soviet Union’s policy has placed the imperialists in a difficult position. However, they are not giving up, they are undertaking reckless steps like conspiring against Congo, Laos and Cuba. 

We came to visit our friends, and to strengthen the joint struggle against imperialism. In our region of the globe we are continuing the fight against injustice, such as occupation of Palestine, which deprived the Palestinian people of their rights, as well as creation of Israel – an imperialist agent in our area. 

In the conclusion please allow us to express our affection and friendship to you, which all the people of UAR feel towards you, as well as to wish the Soviet people new successes, and to you personally health and many years of life. 

Thank you.

N.S. Khrushchev: Thank you. Please express to President Gamal Abdel Nasser our big gratitude for his greetings and warm wishes. I also would like to thank Field Marshal Amer for his greetings and warm wishes. I wish President Gamal Abdel Nasser and Field Marshal Amer good health and success. 

Relationships between our governments and between us personally are good. We are very sympathetic to your struggle to strengthen the hard-won independence, and are helping you, within our abilities, to strengthen the economy and the sovereignty of your country. We are pleased that our help is useful to you. Your victories over Britain and France, which you put back in their places, bring us joy. The construction of the Aswan Dam is also a blow to imperialism. The US used to think that nothing extraordinary can be created without them, but we have proven that this is not so. New forces have emerged in the world. The Aswan Dam will be built in accordance with our design, which is more progressive and cheaper. 

We are living in the time when “all things new” in the socialist countries are ahead of “all things new” in the capitalist countries. The US is in fact trying to implement a policy of a trade blockade against the Soviet Union in order to prevent us from developing science and technology. But these attempts failed, and a Soviet man has already flown around the Earth and an American man still has not. The USA is a rich, technically developed country. What else could they ask for? We beat the US in space exploration thanks to our socialist system, and our victory has made history, it will go down to posterity. 

In 1970 the Soviet Union will catch up with the US in per capita production, and as early as 1965 it will catch up in the volume of production. In steel production we have already almost caught up with them: in 1965 we will produce 98-100,000,000 tons of steel per year (we have somewhat revised our seven-year plan). This year we have produced 71,000,000 tons of steel, last year we smelted 65,000,000 tons of steel, that is we had an increase of six million tons in one year. Meanwhile, the US is making no headway, and are even moving backwards. They have seven million unemployed. What kind of system is it that brings so much suffering to its people[?] On the other hand, we are happy with our system. We want to set an example to other nations so that they could draw on our experience.   

We are building communism. You Arabs say that you, too, are building socialism based on Arab nationalism. You and we have different views on socialism, but history will show who is right and who is wrong. If people see that life is better in a communist system, and they are being told that communism is bad, then people will remove these officials and say, “We support communism!” King Farouk was against progress. You were right to have removed him. 

Our accomplishments prove that communism is better than capitalism. We are producing 3 times more engineers than the US. Every fifth Soviet person is getting an education. And those who have education will have the future. Socialism and communism create conditions that are more favorable for scientists. The US has grown fat. We are not richer than the US, but we create better conditions for education. In the US only the rich can afford to get an education. Very few of the poor manage to get an education. But in our country everyone is equal. Those who want to study, do so. We provide students with scholarships and dormitories. This is possible only in socialist countries. Therefore the victory in this peaceful competition will be ours. 

We advise you Arabs to take a close look at our successes. While it is true that you disparage the communists, but this is because of your political backwardness.

Anwar Sadat: We do not disparage the communists. We respect the principles chosen by the people. 

N.S. Khrushchev: We also hold the same view and we believe that one can’t force people into paradise with a stick. For many years you were under the yoke of colonialism. Then you secured a victory for Arab nationalism. But Arab nationalism is not the pinnacle, it’s not the final stage. Nationalism is not the summit of happiness, because happiness of one nation is not enough. We stand for happiness for all nations. 

Anyway, I should stop. Otherwise you might think that I am trying to convert you into communists. I am not pursuing this objective, though I believe that some of the people present here might become communists in the future. 

Life goes on. Ideas cannot be jailed. You can jail a person, but a person doesn’t stop being a communist because of this. The Tsar exiled Lenin and put Dzerzhinsky into shackles, but he didn’t get anywhere with that. Lenin founded the first socialist state in the world. Dzerzhinsky was liberated. Our people gained a happy life.

Do not be surprised by me praising the socialist system. I am the First Secretary of the CPSU CC, so you wouldn’t expect me to praise capitalism, would you? Communism is a new, stronger, more progressive system. Our communist was the first to see the Earth from space, our people are writing the history of space [exploration]. Why was a Soviet person the first to go to space? This question bugs a lot of people. Forty years ago tsarist Russia was probably the most backward country in Europe. We were looking up at the US. Now we are at the same level with the US, and soon we are going to look down on the US. Gagarin has already looked down on the US. 

You are saying that you are building socialism. But you don’t understand the substance of socialism. Socialism is the first phase of communism. It’s like you started learning your alphabet: A is for socialism, B is for communism. If you are against communism, then don’t say you are building socialism. Otherwise you may put yourself in a difficult situation. You may become a victim of imperialistic propaganda. 

Communism is the holy of holies. All nations will come to communism. Some directly, some in a roundabout way, but everyone will come to communism. 

We want friendship between the nations. We are striving for disarmament. But the issue of the choice of the system is up to the nations themselves. The nations will choose the system that will provide better conditions for life. 

We are happy that the colonial system is crumbling. It’s a difficult process but it’s moving along. The Soviet Union and socialist countries are on the side of the nations who are fighting against colonialism. Those who support the prolongation of colonialism cannot be our friends. Therefore we are against the colonialist US, Britain, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, and the like. We are not going to have mercy on them, we are not afraid of them. 

We are the most true and loyal friends of nations who are struggling against colonialism. That is why we took a very decisive stand against Britain and France in 1956 during their aggression against Egypt. We stood up for Syria in 1957, and for Lebanon during the American and British invasion from the sea, we supported the Iraqi revolution in 1958. We are supporting Cuba, Laos, and Congo. We don’t have any self-interests. For example, we purchased sugar from Cuba just to help Cuba. We help India, the UAR, and other countries. But our help is different from the help the US is providing. They are “helping” so that those who are being helped would come back to them for help again and would always be dependent on them. We, on the contrary, help the countries create their own national industry, strengthen the economy, and elevate the standard of living for the people. The US will not provide you with this type of help because they are afraid to create competition for themselves. Our country has a different government system, planned economy, and therefore we are not afraid of competition. 

With this the first part of the conversation translated by V. Solov’yev and written down by Malyukovsky was concluded. 

After the members of the delegation thanked N.S. Khrushchev for the conversation and departed, Anwar Sadat requested permission to stay behind and have a confidential conversation with N.S. Khrushchev. N.S. Khrushchev agreed. 

Anwar Sadat: Mister Chairman, Field Marshal Amer expresses his satisfaction and gratitude to you personally for agreeing to provide us with weapons on the terms of paying 2/3 of their cost, but he is requesting a lowering of the price. 

In this respect, I would like to describe to you our situation. At present we are paying and will continue paying until 1967 annual installments in the amount of 20,000,000 Egyptian pounds for weapons, previously purchased on credit, for training of military specialists in the USSR, and for providing instruction in our country. If we purchase a new shipment of weapons at 2/3 of its cost, then the annual installment payment towards the credit will increase by 15-20,000,000 Egyptian pounds and will therefore be 35-40,000,000 Egyptian pounds. This amount equals half of the cost of the total cotton crop in our country, and paying it would mean bankruptcy for us. 

There are also other aspects of this issue. Cairo at present is literally full of representatives of African countries – North, West, Central, and South Africa. They all have to be fed. They all have to be provided with a place to live and with resources to conduct propaganda campaigns. 

Moreover we are providing assistance to these countries through government channels, too. We grant Algeria with 2,000,000 Egyptian pounds every year, we have provided Somalia with a shipment of weapons and economic assistance. As you know, we also sold two million pounds’ worth of weapons to Indonesia, and Indonesia hasn’t repaid this amount as of yet. 

Consequently we bear a very heavy burden by supporting the struggle of other nations, and we will do it without hesitation. 

I believe I am not exaggerating if I say that in Africa we are facing imperialism almost one-on-one. For example, the fact that the imperialists hurled 1,500 NATO airplanes at us illustrates what onslaught we had to withstand during the tripartite aggression. 

In light of the above, we are asking [you] to reconsider the price of the weapons. 

N.S. Khrushchev: We understand your situation and appreciate the role of the United Arab Republic in the joint struggle of the nations for national liberation. We give credit to President Nasser. In the struggle against imperialism your and our points of view coincide on all key issues. You provide a lot of help to the struggling nations and we do too. It’s quite a lot of help that we have to provide to all the different countries, including African, Asian and Latin American countries!

Unfortunately we are still not rich enough to be able to provide military assistance at 1/3 of the price. I explained this to Field Marshal Amer. We are providing big assistance to Indonesia, also at 2/3 of the price. After all, when we are providing assistance, we are not making money on it, but, on the contrary, bear all the expenses. If we provide assistance to the UAR on different terms, then other countries will also ask for and will insist on different conditions. Therefore we cannot single out the UAR. This is where the main difficulty lies.

You have to understand, our economy is still not that strong. When Field Marshal Amer was here, I tried to persuade him of this, but I was sick then. I just started being up and about again after an illness, and probably wasn’t able to persuade him. Now he got you involved in this. You are all young people. There’s no way I will be able to withstand you. I beg for mercy. 

Anwar Sadat: The situation in the UAR is different from the situation of the rest of the countries in our region, similar to how the situation in Cuba cannot be compared to the situation in any other country in Latin America. In our region we are one-on-one with imperialism, just like Cuba is in Latin America. 

When I address you with this request, Mister Chairman, I feel like we have the right to do this. It is because this right was given to us when Chairman Khrushchev committed to the responsibility, since he took over leading the fight of the Soviet Union against imperialism for the benefit of all nations. 

N.S. Khrushchev: We are pleased to see that we are encounter sympathy, that we are trusted, and we will not betray your trust. 

Then Nikita Sergeyevich says by way of a joke: but you are robbers, you know, and I told Amer that. Did he tell you? I like him very much. He is loyal to his people and fights against imperialism adamantly. We are genuinely on your side. We want to help and we are helping you, but you are asking for too much, you are literally robbing us. 

Anwar Sadat: All of us – Amer and I, and President Gamal Abdel Nasser in the first place, believe in Chairman Khrushchev, trust him and eternally appreciate him. I would like to stress that if it were not for the Soviet Union, if it were not for Chairman Khrushchev, under whose leadership the Soviet Union gained such enormous international stature and became the hope of all nations for their liberation, the nations would not be able to fight for their freedom and independence with such confidence. 

The dangers that threaten us cannot be imagined, but I want to stress that imperialists are resorting to desperate steps, to the most reckless and unexpected steps. What Kennedy has done with respect to Cuba is the best proof of this. And that is exactly why we are “robbing” you and have the right to “rob” you, for we are in the line of fire, and Chairman Khrushchev is in the line of fire alongside us. 

N.S. Khrushchev: This is correct, but our financial capabilities are limited. I ask you to pass to President Nasser and Field Marshal Amer that they should “rob” in moderation. 

Anwar Sadat: Mr. Chairman, we are trying to get the weapons for reasons of self-defense. After all, Khrushchev doesn’t want us to go bankrupt. Otherwise I will have to go to the Central Committee of the Communist Party, to my friend, Mukhitdinov, stand on the sidewalk and deliver a speech (and I am not a bad public speaker), and I will say, “People, we are facing bankruptcy, please help us!”

N.S. Khrushchev: Well, what do you know, you are very persistent people. So it’s not only Amer, but you, too. We are pleased to see that President Nasser is surrounded by such people. Well then, we are going to do everything in our power to prevent you from going bankrupt. After all no one expected that we would start building the High Dam. We are helping you, but have mercy on me. Otherwise I will be expelled from the Party. Just look how many countries we are helping – Laos, Cuba, Ghana, Guinea, and Mali. If we start helping you more than others, they will say, “Why are you only helping Arabs?”

We are helping Algeria. The Algerians must win, and their victory will become a great victory for all Arabs, as well as for all freedom-loving nations. 

Anwar Sadat: I would like to stress once again, that we are in a special position. Let’s take India for example. I don’t want to cast aspersions on India but, after all, at the time when Kennedy is declaring that the White House is responsible for the failed scheme against Cuba, Nehru gets up and says that the participation of the US in this aggression hasn’t been proven! 

N.S. Khrushchev: Yes, it is true. And it is also true that the UAR occupies a special position, and even possibly the leading position. If the UAR could persuade Sudan to grant UAR direct access to Congo through its territory, then the situation in Congo would be completely different now. 

Anwar Sadat: There are a lot of agents of imperialism in Sudan, especially British imperialism. And in general I should point out that the Arabs who live around us, create more trouble for us than the imperialists themselves. But we are firm and resolute in our position. We don’t have any other friend other than the Soviet Union and Chairman Khrushchev personally, and therefore we are asking you not to leave us without any friends at all.

N.S. Khrushchev: I will repeat it again for you, we support and value UAR’s progressive role in the struggle against imperialism. 

I don’t know what our military have agreed on. Did they agree on the amount and types of weapons?

Anwar Sadat: Yes, they have agreed on the amount and types of weapons. The only issue is the payment. 

N.S. Khrushchev: I will consult with my economists and the Minister of Defense once again, but we have a difficult situation because we have to apply the same payment principles to different countries. However, I promise again to find a way to help you through other means, just not by reducing the cost of the weapons. If we reduce this cost, then we are going to agitate Indonesia and Laos, and the situation in Laos is still very difficult. The imperialists may try to stir up some new trouble there. 

Please pass to Nasser and Amer that we understand your needs, and understand the reasons behind your push, and that we will do everything to help you within our power, but that we cannot do what is beyond our capabilities. 

Please pass my best regards to Nasser and Amer. I am happy that I have had an opportunity to meet you, and that President Nasser is surrounded by such good people. 

N.S. Khrushchev and Anwar Sadat say their good-byes. Anwar Sadat said: I am saying good-bye but I am offended. Nikita Sergeyevich said that he hasn’t done anything to offend Sadat, but Anwar Sadat responded that he was hoping that “Chairman Khrushchev would fully support his request”.

This conversation was translated and written down by V.I. Solov’yev.