Record of a Conversation Between Cde. N. S. Khrushchev, Chairman of the USSR Council of Ministers, and Portes Gil, Former President of Mexico

RECORD OF A CONVERSATION

BETWEEN Cde. N. S. KHRUSHCHEV, CHAIRMAN OF THE  USSR COUNCIL OF MINISTERS, AND PORTES GIL, FORMER PRESIDENT OF MEXICO

The conversation was held on 8 September 1961 during a reception held  in the Grand Kremlin Palace by the Soviet government in honor of Indian Prime Minister Nehru.

Portes Gil I came to your country to familiarize myself with the life of your people, with your achievements in the area of the economy, and to write a book about all I have seen.

N. S. Khrushchev A great deal can be written about our country, both good and bad; this depends on from point of view you look on our life.

Portes Gil Yes, in the West they write much about the Soviet Union and they write a lot of bad things.

N. S. Khrushchev You know that it even pleases us when the press of the imperialists write bad things about us. This means that we are going along the correct path. If they began to write good things about us, we should start thinking whether we are doing stupid things. August Bebel always said that if the enemies of the working class curse you for your deeds then this means that we are defending the interests of the working class and all workers well. It is in this sense that I am saying that we are glad to hear that the imperialists in the West write bad things about us.

Portes Gil We are well familiar with this. After the beginning of the Mexican Revolution in 1910 the North Americans also wrote bad things about us for 50 years. But before the Revolution they took away a considerable part of the territory of Mexico. 

Mr. Khrushchev, could you not say some words about the critical international situation which has developed right now?

N. S. Khrushchev A great deal has been written about this in the press. Our position has been defined quite clearly. We favor a strengthening of peace, a prohibition of nuclear weapons, and disarmament. We are proposing to conclude a German peace treaty in order to put out the smoldering breeding ground of war in the center of Europe. And only those who are striving for a new war can refuse to conclude the peace treaty. But how did the imperialists regard our proposal? In  response to our proposal to conclude peace they began to threaten us with war, whipped up the arms race, and created great tension in the entire world.

In this situation we could not fail to be concerned about the security of our country. We were faced with the need to conduct test explosions of nuclear weapons in order to strengthen the country’s might, so to speak, to build the muscles of our defense.

In accumulating the means of destruction of people, in response to our statement about conducting tests of atomic weapons the imperialists began to shout that we were acting “amorally”, hiding behind hypocritical phrases about love of humanity and the health of people. But their morals are the morals of a executioner who, before cutting off the head of his victim, sends him to a hospital if he is sick, cures him, and then cuts off his head.

We could not fail to improve the weapons needed to stop the executioner, who wants to not only take away from hundreds of millions of people their health, but also their lives. We do not want to become a victim of the imperialists and therefore we are increasing our might and building [our] muscles.

We are building up our defensive might in order to avert war and I think this is very humane.

Portes Gil I completely agree with you.

N. S. Khrushchev Don’t talk to imperialists about humanity! Those who are sowing death in Angola and Bizerte, in Algeria and the Congo, everywhere people rise up to fight for freedom and independence, hold discussions about the health of people. The conscience of humanity cannot be reconciled with colonialism any more. But like it is impossible to convince a tiger to eat grass instead of meat with the aid of good words, so too it is impossible to convince the imperialists to abandon the oppression of its victims. Fighting colonialism requires the joint efforts of all free peoples.

Portes Gil I have always spoken against colonialism.

N. S. Khrushchev At the present moment this concerns the main thing, averting war. It is necessary to seek complete and total disarmament in order to put an end to the danger of the start of a new war [or] an arms race. We are proposing to carry out complete and total disarmament with the strictest international monitoring. And this proposal expresses genuine concern for the health and lives of people.

For the same purposes we are seeking the elimination of the vestiges of the Second World War in the center of Europe and the creation in this region of a normal situation through the conclusion of the German peace treaty.

This is our position.

Portes Gil Mr. Khrushchev, I am deeply grateful to you for the conversation. The meeting and conversation with you were the greatest desire of my life and now this desire has been fulfilled. Again, I thank you.

N. S. Khrushchev I wish you health and success.

Present during the conversation were Cde. G. A. Zhukov Chairman of the State Committee of the USSR Council of Ministers for Cultural Ties With Foreign Countries, and Ernesto Madero, Charge d’Affaires of Mexico in the USSR.

The conversation was recorded by: Yu. Tomshin

[handwritten at the bottom of the

last page: V. [Kamenev]]