July 3, 1959
Record of Conversation between Comrade N.S. Khrushchev and Comrade Ho Chi Minh
This document was made possible with support from Blavatnik Family Foundation
RECORD OF A CONVERSATION BETWEEN CDE. N. S. KHRUSHCHEV AND CDE. HO CHI MINH
3 July 1959, Moscow, the Kremlin*
*[handwritten at the bottom of the first page: “The record of the conversation was not distributed and not reviewed by Cde. N. S. Khrushchev”]
After mutual greetings Cde. Ho Chi Minh asked Cde. Khrushchev whether the Soviet comrades intended to carry out the seven-year plan in a shorter period, let’s say, in five years. He, Ho Chi Minh, found out about the desire of the Soviet people to fulfill the seven-year plan ahead of time from reports of the Soviet press.
Cde. Khrushchev told Cde. Ho Chi Minh about the great work which the CPSU CC and the Soviet government have been doing to successfully accomplish the seven-year plan. After the June plenum, which discussed questions connected with ensuring the fulfillment of the seven-year plan, conferences will be held in the republics as an important organizational measure ensuring the realization of the tasks of the seven-year plan. Undoubtedly, the plan will be fulfilled for several sectors in shorter timeframes, but the CPSU CC and the Soviet government are striving to ensure good preparation and regularity in fulfilling the plan for all the target figures.
Cde. Khrushchev talked about the bitter experiment of the Chinese comrades, who did not estimate well and outlined the “Great Leap Forward” program, and in the final account did not withstand the pace adopted and were confronted with exceptional difficulties. The Chinese comrades displayed conceit and made important mistakes in questions of economic development. Their mistakes serve as a serious warning to everyone. We cannot act like this. Cde. Khrushchev reminded [Ho Chi Minh] that at one time Stalin made serious mistakes in carrying out collectivization in our country, and was then forced to come out with an article, “[Golovokruzhenie s uspekhov] Dizzy With Success” but after all there were essentially no successes. Then they made a lot of difficulties, make exaggerations and even arbitrary actions, but where then forced to pull back. We do not intend to repeat such mistakes, said Cde. Khrushchev.
Cde. Ho Chi Minh informed [Khrushchev] of the economic development of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, that they had gathered a good harvest, that the industry of the Republic was developing slowly, but there are undoubted successes, that the Soviet specialists have given much help to the Vietnamese comrades.
Cde. Ho Chi Minh said that at the present time the Vietnamese comrades are making preparations to draft a five-year plan for the development of the economy of the Republic and would very much for the Soviet comrades to help them in this matter.
Then Cde. Ho Chi Minh told about the situation which has developed in Laos at the present time.
Cde. Ho Chi Minh asked Cde. Khrushchev to tell about the situation in the United Arab Republic and in Iraq and about the relations of the Soviet Union with these countries.
Cde. Khrushchev told Cde. Ho Chi Minh that the Soviet government had already informed the governments of the other socialist countries earlier about the correspondence which had taken place between the leaders of the Soviet Union and Nasser. Right now we have information that Nasser has come to complete agreement with the Americans. He is not waging open propaganda against us right now, but the fight against Communists is continuing in the UAR. We knew in the past who Nasser is, but we have supported him, for this was correct and advisable.
Cde. Khrushchev provided information that the Soviet specialists who had developed the design for the construction of the Aswan Dam in Egypt had achieved great successes. They managed to demolish the design of the British and Nasser approved our Soviet design. The fact that we offered the UAR loans was politically and economically advantageous for us.
Cde. Ho Chi Minh said that in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam ordinary people ask their leaders, why the USSR continues to help Nasser if he is acting as a blatant anti-Communist right now?
Cde. Khrushchev said that it is necessary to look at things realistically. In the past we knew who Nasser was and everything that occurred in the United Arab Republic just as we foresaw. He, Nasser, is an anti-Communist, we knew this and we know it, but we want to maintain normal relations with the United Arab Republic. We are winning the sympathies of the Arabs to our side.
Concerning the situation in Iraq, it is hard to say how events will develop in the future. The situation there is stable right now, but Iraqi Communists sometimes do not act at all deliberately. They put too much pressure on Qasim, and this is unrealistic. There is reason to assume that Nasser is counting on halting the fight with Qasim and pushing him to break with the Communists, and to then try to deal with Qasim himself. Much in Iraq depends on the positions and actions of the Iraqi Communists. It is important that they do not make mistakes in their relations with Qasim.
Cde. Ho Chi Minh said that he completely agrees with these assessments and that they understand the situation in Iraq this way.
Cde. Ho Chi Minh asked Cde. Khrushchev when will be able to come to the Democratic Republic of Vietnam on a visit.
Cde. Khrushchev told Cde. Ho Chi Minh that this is absolutely impossible this year inasmuch he had an impending trip to the Polish People’s Republic at the head of a Part-government delegation, and then he has to go to the Scandinavian countries, and then he will be on vacation. It is possible that he will be able to be in Vietnam next year.
Cde. Ho Chi Minh advocated that Cde. Khrushchev come in January 1960, for this is the most suitable time from the point of view of climate conditions.
In conclusion Cde. Khrushchev and Cde. Ho Chi Minh exchanged opinions about the program for Cde. Ho Chi Minh’s stay in the Soviet Union and his trip throughout the union republics.
Cde. Ho Chi Minh thanked Cde. Khrushchev for the conversation.
The conversation was recorded by [signature] (I. Medvedev)
Ho Chi Minh informs Khrushchev about relations between Vietnam and Laos, and Khrushchev briefs Ho Chi Minh on Soviet relations with the UAR and Iraq. Khrushchev expresses support for Nasser. They also discuss the success of the USSR's seven-year plan and DRV's upcoming five year plan.
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