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September 21, 1982

Soviet-Indian Talks (Conclusion)

This document was made possible with support from Blavatnik Family Foundation

Subject to return to theCPSU CC (General Department, 1st Sector)

Distributed to CPSU CC Politburomembers and candidate members and CPSU CC Secretaries

Nº P1603

Secret

SOVIET-INDIAN TALKS*

(conclusion)

21 September 1982

The talks were held [by the following] from the Soviet side: L. I. Brezhnev, General Secretary of the CPSU CC and Chairman of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet; A. A. Gromyko, USSR Minister of Foreign Affairs and member of the CPSU CC Politburo; D. F. Ustinov, USSR Minister of Defense and candidate member of the CPSU CC Politburo; and B. N. Ponomarev, Chief of the International Department of the CPSU CC.

From the Indian side: Indira Gandhi, Prime Minister of India; P. V. Narasimha Rao, Minister of Foreign Affairs of India; J Parthasarathi, Chief Adviser to the Prime Minister; Dr. P. C. Alexander, Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister; and M. Rasgotra, First Deputy Minister of External Affairs of India.

I. GANDHI. I will begin our conversation with a survey of the situation in our region and in the countries which border us. Yesterday, Mr. General Secretary, we listened to your assessments of the policy of Pakistan with great attention and interest. They are in accord with our conclusions. But, although we cannot completely trust the words and assurances of the Pakistani leaders, we should take steps to search for a settlement of mutual problems, based on the fact that the peoples of our counties need to find a way for peaceful coexistence with one another. Guided by these very considerations India has proposed to conclude a treaty of peace and friendship with Pakistan. We also consider that Pakistan is a participant of the non-aligned movement and hopefully it will pursue a course in agreement with the principles of non-alignment.

We heard with attention and took note of your words that the Soviet Union wants to normalize relations with the PRC. As you stressed, Mr. General Secretary, not at the expense of the Soviet Union’s friendly relations with Vietnam, Mongolia, India, and other countries. We also want to improve relations with China. However, we assure you that we are seeking a way to solve this problem not at the expense of the friendship with the Soviet Union which has been tried and tested by time. The dialog has been resumed between India and China. But only insignificant progress has been achieved as a result of a series of talks. The position of China has not changed concerning the key question for us, the border question, in which there exist sharp differences between India and the PRC, and the position of China has not changed.

Some words about Afghanistan. Good relations exist between us and the Afghan government. Our position on “the Afghan question” is well known. We think that progress in the solution of this problem cannot be achieved until outside interference in the affairs of Afghanistan ceases.

As is well known, India a signed the declaration of the Confederation of the Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the Non-aligned Countries held in Delhi in 1981 in which there is a section concerning Afghanistan.

We also explained our position with respect to Afghanistan in the course of our recent visit to the United States, noting that we advocate a political settlement of “the Afghan problem”. The US government told us that it is also striving for a political solution of this problem.

I met with D. Cordovez, a special representative of the UN Secretary General, and he informed me of the indirect Pakistani-Afghan talks held in Geneva this June with his mediation. Cordovez told me that three factors had been identified as a result of these talks:

1. It is necessary to halt any interference and support to the Afghan rebels from outside and to provide international guarantees of this.

2. It is necessary to withdraw the Soviet troops from Afghanistan.

3. The return of Afghan refugees to [their] homeland ought to be ensured.

In the conversation with me Cordovez also touched on the question of the composition and nature of the government of Afghanistan. He spoke in the sense that the Afghan people ought to have the right to choose a government as they see fit.

At some stage he would like for all these factors to find reflection in a settlement of “the Afghan problem”.

I speak in such detail because the problems associated with Afghanistan will be raised and considered at the upcoming conference of heads of state and governments of the non-aligned countries. Therefore, we would like to know your point of view on these problems.

L. I. BREZHNEV. Our position here is clear.

I. GANDHI. The US government has expressed a wish that India play the role of mediator in a settlement of “the Afghan problem”. The representative of Ireland, who was in your country recently, has expressed the same wish. We are not especially striving to mediateе inasmuch as from our experience we know that such efforts always create difficulties, both for us and for others.

I am of the opinion that an exchange of opinions on these and other questions is quite useful and will help both you and us.

Members of the non-aligned movement have come to us with a request to agree for the upcoming conference of the heads of state and governments of the non-aligned countries to be held in Delhi. We are aware that the non-aligned movement is faced with many difficulties. There are forces which want to see this movement weakened. They will exert efforts in the future to achieve this goal. Differences and centrifugal tendencies are exhibited in the non-aligned movement itself, and conflicts often arise. For our part we are setting a goal of strengthening and consolidating the non-aligned movement. In this context the attitude of the superpowers toward it has major importance. We hope that this movement will enjoy the support of the Soviet Union in the future.

The following fact demonstrates the difficulties which the non-aligned movement encounters. At the present time the ASEAN countries are exerting pressure, seeking permission for Prince Sihanouk to speak at the upcoming conference of the heads of state and governments of the non-aligned countries on the grounds that he was one of the founders of the non-aligned movement.

Now I would like to dwell again on some domestic political problems. When I touched on these problems during our meeting yesterday I did not pursue the goal of encouraging the Soviet Union to give instructions  to anyone in our country on how to behave. I would just like to inform  you about the situation inside India and to familiarize [you] with my assessment of the domestic political situation in the country. This situation is causing worry. I have already said that the right-wing religious and communal party Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has spread its influence in those regions of the country where they had previously had weak positions. When they do so the rightists receive support from left-wing forces. The BJP was able to strengthen its positions [and] not without the support of the Communist Party at that. But the fact that the Communist Party supports the strike action encourages the development of tendencies toward sabotage of industrial production. All this harms India’s interests, threatens its security, and plays into the hands of separatist forces. These forces have recently become more active in the state of Punjab and in the northeast states of India. The subversive, separatist elements in Punjab rely on the support of the United States and have broad ties with the Sikh emigrant community in Canada and the US. The actions of the separatists in the northeast of India rely on the aid and support of the PRC.

Permit [me] to dwell on some questions of our cooperation. We highly value the aid of the Soviet Union in the development of the atomic power industry of India. As you know right now we are experiencing problems with heavy water. And I would like for you to help us solve them.

V. AHUJA (the Indian Ambassador in the USSR) Permit me, please, to make an explanation. We have built two atomic electric power stations. But we cannot put them into operation inasmuch as we are experiencing a shortage of heavy water. And we would be appreciative if the Soviet Union could increase the delivery of heavy water to India. We also need your assistance in the enrichment of the heavy water that India has.

L. I. BREZHNEV. We will look at this question.

I. GANDHI. We are also interested in an exchange of information about the situation in the Indian Ocean, especially about those activities in this region which are directed against us.

L. I. BREZHNEV. We agree with your suggestion and support it.

I. GANDHI. During his visit to India this March USSR Minister of Defense D. F. Ustinov displayed generosity and an understanding of our needs on defense questions. He gave us important assistance.

D. F. USTINOV. It is Leonid Il’ich who gave you the assistance. Before the trip to India he instructed me in detail and recommended comprehensive assistance in the solution of problems associated with strengthening the defense capacity of India.

I. GANDHI. That’s absolutely right. Such impressive successes in our cooperation in the area of defense could not have been achieved without the great aid and attention from you, Mr. General Secretary.

I would like to find out whether the Soviet Union could supply India with early warning and control aircraft systems like AWACS.

L. I. BREZHNEV. We do not yet have aircraft of this type. But when they appear we will share them with you.

I. GANDHI. I want to again return to the situation in our region. We are witnesses to the fact that American and Chinese influence is increasing in neighboring countries. We observe this in Bangladesh. The same thing is happening in Nepal and Bhutan. I am no longer speaking about Pakistan, which is generally under the direct influence of the US.

Not long ago the King of Nepal visited Tibet. And, as we were informed, he returned from there under a great impression of military preparations being conducted there by the Chinese. As they tell us, the King of Nepal has been increasingly forced to reckon with China and fears taking steps which displease the Chinese.

This is actually all that I wanted to say. I spoke of all the questions troubling me and am quite grateful to you, Mr. General Secretary, for the patience with which you listened to me.

Allow me again to express deep appreciation to the Soviet Union for the aid to India in the most diverse fields. This aid plays a great role in strengthening India’s independence and its positions. I especially want to thank you, Mr. General Secretary, for the great personal contribution to the cause of Soviet-Indian cooperation, for the constant attention to the development of this cooperation, and for the great work which you are  doing to further strengthen it.

[Translator’s note: from this point on, text is quoted from the document in ll. 57-62 prepared for a private meeting with Gandhi:]

L. I. BREZHNEV. Dear Madam Prime Minister, the relations of trust and mutual understanding established between us allow me to exchange opinions frankly, as it should be between friends. This time I would like to share some confidential views with you.

First of all I want to confirm our readiness to continue to give India assistance in strengthening its defense capability. These questions were discussed in detail during the visit to India of Marshal Ustinov, and things are going well here.

In helping supply the Indian armed forces with modern weapons and military equipment we do this on exclusively preferential terms for India. We do this guided not by commercial, but political considerations, striving to give it support.

An indicator of the high level and, I would say, special nature of our military collaboration is the aid of the Soviet Union to India in the creation of its atomic submarine fleet. Considering those requests which we have already received from the Indian side, the volume of this collaboration evidently will not only be preserved, but grow appreciably in the foreseeable future. We take this into account when determining priorities in our planning. We believe that the Indian side has the same approach.

All this quite compellingly raises the question of the desirability, yes even the business necessity, of creating some joint body which would make the solution of current questions and the long-term planning of our military collaboration easier. If the Indian side shares this opinion then experts could come to agreement about the specific form of such a body.

We are ready for a further expansion of collaboration with India and on Indian Ocean questions. In our view, the situation developing here requires a broader exchange of confidential information on military and political questions of the situation in the Indian Ocean and a stepping up our collaboration in the naval field. If the Indian leadership agrees in principle with this formulation of the question then the appropriate representatives of both sides could be charged with preparing specific proposals on this matter.

I would like to also raise such a question. Madam Prime Minister, you well know how highly we value the role of the non-aligned movement in world affairs. As experience shows, this role is more authoritative the more cohesively and actively it advocates for peace and against the aggressive intrigues of imperialism. Those who would like to confront it from anti-imperialist positions, take a leading role in it, and use [it] for their own ends understand this. In the final account all this would lead to a division of the movement and a lessening of its authority and influence. In expressing these views we proceed from the position that such questions cannot fail to trouble India, which has done so much to strengthen the unity and to increase the authority of the movement.

Some words about the malicious activity of the Pakistani leadership against Afghanistan. It not only grants complete freedom to the interventionists on its own territory, but actually encourages [Translator’s note: the following two words were omitted in the record of the conversation: and coordinates] their activity. At the same time Pakistani officials deny their complicity in this. Reliable information about the participation of the Pakistani authorities in the training, supply, and transportation of the interventionist bands into Afghanistan assumes great importance in unmasking the two-faced policy of the Pakistan leadership.

We have such information and it is quite complete. But, as they say, you can never have too much of a good thing, and we would be grateful to the leadership of friendly India if it considered it possible to share information at its disposal on this matter confidentially.

In conclusion I want to confidentially inform you of some steps we have recently taken in the sphere of relations with China.

In the middle of this August the chief of the PRC MFA Department of the USSR and Eastern Europe Countries was passing through Moscow as a guest of the Chinese ambassador. At his request conversations were held with a deputy minister of foreign affairs and a chief of a USSR MFA department.

In the course of these conversations the PRC MFA representative said that the PRC and the USSR could make efforts to eliminate the serious obstacles to the development of relations between the two countries and to hold consultations with this purpose on some questions concerning such obstacles.

However, as he put it, the Chinese representative named questions touching on the relations of the Soviet Union with Vietnam, Kampuchea, Mongolia, and Afghanistan among the first-priority questions which ought to be solved as preconditions to an improvement of relations between the two countries.

Essentially the PRC MFA representative repeated the same preliminary conditions which the Chinese side advanced earlier, both publicly and in the course of negotiations, about a normalization of relations between the USSR and the PRC in the fall of 1979.

The PRC representative was told that, as has been repeatedly pointed out, the Soviet proposals directed at a normalization of Soviet-Chinese relations remain in effect. At the same time it was decisively stressed that a discussion of questions concerning third parties is unacceptable to us.

On 20 August of this year an aide-memoire was sent to the PRC Embassy in Moscow. In development of what was said in my speech in Tashkent of this year it said that the Soviet side is ready to discuss the problems of bilateral relations between the USSR and the PRC with the Chinese side at any time. It mentioned in the note that the Soviet Union counts on the Chinese side taking our position into account and doing everything necessary to put Soviet-Chinese relations in a calm direction with joint efforts, and to create a suitable atmosphere for the development of good-neighborly relations and cooperation between our two neighboring countries. However, the Soviet-Chinese talks or consultations cannot be held to the detriment of third countries.

Not at all long ago in response to our aide-memoire the Chinese side expressed a desire to privately continue the contacts between the USSR and the PRC about the question of improving intergovernmental relations through special representatives of the rank of deputy foreign minister in  Peking and Moscow in turn, and proposed to hold the first meeting in Peking at the beginning of this October. We will see what these meetings lead to. [Translator’s note: in the draft version the expression for “privately” [v neglasnom poryadke] was inserted at this point by hand].

The true intentions of Peking both in the sphere of foreign policy as well as in the sphere of Soviet-Chinese relations might be judged more definitely from the real political practice of the Chinese leadership after the 12th CPC Congress.

In a word, as before, we will try to somehow improve and normalize relations with China, but in no way at the expense of the principles of our foreign policy or relations with our friends such as India, Mongolia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and others.

[Translator’s note: the draft remarks for the private meeting end at this point]

Now about relations with the CPI.

Madam Prime Minister, we understand your concern that your relations with the Communist Party of India are not always developing favorably.

Therefore, when meeting with the leaders of the CPI, our comrades invariably advance the idea of the need for the joint efforts of all the patriotic and democratic forces of India to solve the complex problems of its socioeconomic and political development, and to repel the intrigues of imperialism and hegemonism. It is in this key that the CPSU delegation, in particular, spoke at the recent 12th Congress of the Communist Party of India.

In conversations with Indian Communists we also direct attention to the energetic efforts of your government to strengthen the unity of the country and in the fight against the forces of religious and communal reaction and separatism. Your great personal contribution to the development and deepening of friendship and cooperation between the USSR and India and in strengthening peace in Asia and in the entire world is especially stressed.

At the same time we ask that it be understood that the Communist Party of India is a fully independent party. Right now there is no such thing as the Comintern in the international Communist movement. All Communist Parties operate independently and, as you know, the positions of some of them are at times substantially different from ours.

We do not meddle, indeed we cannot meddle, in the affairs of the Communist Party of India; while friendly to us it is absolutely independent. So without interfering in the internal affairs of India, we can only sincerely wish that the Indian Communists and the party you head find a common language and grounds to cooperate in the name of peace, progress, and the prosperity of India.

As concerns the party named “The Communist Party of India (Marxist)”, we have no official relations with it. We know that it forms blocs, often openly, with parties opposed to the government, including the extreme right-wing ones. We do not excuse such a position. 

As concerns the economic questions you raised yesterday, we have given corresponding instructions to the Soviet-Indian Intergovernmental Commission on Economic, Scientific, and Technical Cooperation. The Soviet side will exert every effort to closely study these questions.

That is, perhaps, all that I wanted to say.

We have to sign a joint declaration on the conclusion of the talks. It seems, is the text is ready?

Madam Indira Gandhi, were you pleased with the talks?

I. GANDHI. Yes, completely.

[The following] took part in the talks: from the Soviet side – Yu. M. Vorontsov, Soviet Ambassador in India; Ye. M. Samoteykin, personal assistant of the CPSU CC General Secretary; from the Indian side: V. K. Ahuja, Ambassador of India in the USSR.

The talks were recorded by V. Yegorov, Counsellor of the USSR MFA OYuA [Department of South Asia]

Brezhnev and Gandhi discuss India's relationship to Pakistan and Afghanistan, highlighting the Soviet Union's involvement with the two countries. Gandhi also speaks about India's domestic situation and asks Brezhnev to cooperate in increasing India's defense capabilities. Brezhnev tells Gandhi confidential information about recent developments in Soviet-China relations.



Document Information

Source

RGANI, f. 80, op. 1, d. 631, ll. 108-120. Contributed by Sergey Radchenko and translated by Gary Goldberg.

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Original Uploaded Date

2023-08-02

Type

Memorandum of Conversation

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Record ID

300537

Original Classification

Secret

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