FROM THE DIARY OF S. V. CHERVONENKO, TRANSCRIPT OF CONVERSATION WITH GENERAL SECRETARY OF THE CC CCP, DENG XIAOPING, 30 SEPTEMBER 1961CITATION SHARE DOWNLOAD
get citation"From the Diary of S. V. Chervonenko, Transcript of Conversation with General Secretary of the CC CCP, Deng Xiaoping, 30 September 1961," October 12, 1961, History and Public Policy Program Digital Archive, AVPRF f. 0100, op. 53, p. 8, d. 454, ll. 175-8. Translated by Benjamin Aldrich-Moodie. https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/111250
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From the Diary of S.V. CHERVONENKO 12 October 1961 TOP SECRET Copy No. 1 Transcript of Conversation
with General Secretary of the CC CCP
30 September 1961
In connection with 27 September instructions from the Center, I made a request to meet with Mao Zedong. On September 30, the Secretariat of the CC CCP informed us that Mao Zedong had instructed Deng Xiaoping to receive the Soviet ambassador. On the same day I met with Deng Xiaoping.
At the beginning of the conversation, Deng Xiaoping by way of explaining why Mao Zedong did not receive us, said that the "other comrades of the CC are very busy receiving kings" (at that time, the king and queen of Nepal and the Belgian queen were located in Beijing).
I gave information in an oral form on the Albanian issue (it is our opinion that they were already informed of the matter). Having heard our message, Deng Xiaoping said: "Bad news. Have you reached the culmination point of mutual relations between your two countries and two parties?"
I answered Deng Xiaoping that as he knows from our formerly delivered letter, the Soviet government has more than once made efforts directed at normalizing Soviet-Albanian relations, but the Albanian leaders are taking steps in the opposite direction. Their last step is damaging the security of the member-countries of the Warsaw pact and the basic security of the entire socialist camp.
Deng Xiaoping stated that everyone must not take extreme measures in order to leave room for a settlement.
I again emphasized that after the Moscow conference, the Soviet side undertook multiple steps in order to eliminate misunderstanding in the relations between the Soviet Union and Albania. For instance, a readiness by N.S. Khrushchev to meet with the Albanian leaders was expressed, although the latter, as the Chinese comrades well know, stubbornly refused such a meeting. I added that such a position by the Albanians is incomprehensible to us.
We, Deng Xiaoping responded, are acquainted with the correspondence over this period between the Soviet Union and Albania. Between the CCP and the CPSU there were also great disputes. It is well that both you and we did not take the matter to extremes. We have always stood and stand for this. We said and still say to the Albanian comrades that relations between you should improve and not worsen.
Then Deng Xiaoping thanked [me] for the message and expressed the hope that this bad news would be the culmination point after which an improvement would ensue.
I said that for our part, we would like to share this opinion, but that the situation was not of the Soviet Union's making (za Sovetskim Soiuzum). As for the Albanians' most recent act, it affects the interests of all of the Warsaw pact countries, of the whole socialist camp. For that reason, efforts were needed which would lead to unity on the part of all of the countries of the socialist commonwealth.
In reply, Deng Xiaoping said that he was not in the mood to immerse himself in the essence of the Soviet-Albanian differences. We have, he emphasized, a single desire-that the relations between your countries improve.
In reply to my words that the CPSU had no other desire than to improve relations between the USSR and Albania, Deng Xiaoping again moved the conversation to Soviet-Chinese relations. Having mentioned that relations had been very strained between the CCP and the CPSU and the PRC and the USSR, Deng Xiaoping stated the opinion that since the Moscow conference, these relations have been developing fairly well (neplokho). Having noted that in Korea, F.R. Kozlov invited him to lunch, and he [invited] F.R. Kozlov, Deng Xiaoping said: "We spoke about the importance of solidarity. I said to Kozlov that, of course, on this or that concrete issue we might not have identical opinions, but on the whole after the Moscow conference, our relations have been developing fairly well. Kozlov agreed with this." On a series of important international problems, Deng Xiaoping continued, we expressed and continue to express support for your actions. Between the USSR and the PRC, very good cooperation has been established in the international arena; for instance, at the Geneva conference on Laos. Of course, on certain questions we have not entirely identical opinions. It is true that in Korea we did not speak about the Albanian issue with Kozlov, he added.
Further, Deng Xiaoping stated that "there are 12 countries in the socialist camp, but the issue of relations between the USSR and Albania stands out most of all. Is there really no possibility of finding some way to resolve this issue? For our part, we hope and wish that such a path be found." Deng Xiaoping reminded [us] that Zhou Enlai and he (Deng Xiaoping) had earlier already stated their opinion on Albanian affairs. It is true, he noted, turning to us, that you were not content, especially with my (Deng Xiaoping's) statement.
On that note the conversation about the Albanian issue ended....
At the end of the conversation, I inquired as to whether the CC CCP had received the CC CPSU's congratulatory telegram on the PRC's national holiday. Having received a negative reply, I informed Deng Xiaoping on this issue. Deng Xiaoping expressed thanks to the CC CPSU for the congratulations. Afterwards, he noted that a solemn celebration dedicated to the PRC's 12th anniversary was held in Moscow, and asked that thanks be conveyed to the CC CPSU for the attention paid to the Chinese people's holiday.
The candidate of the secretariat of the CC CCP, Yang Shangkun, translators for the CC CCP apparatus, Yan Mingfu and Zhu Ruizhen, as well as the counselor to the embassy, F.V. Mochul'skii, were present during the conversation.
Ambassador of the USSR in the PRC
From the Diary of
12 October 1961
Copy No. 1
Transcript of Conversation